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module version question

Posted on 2005/08/08 16:23

> 2. Entries are to be written "from scratch"
> You are allowed to use existing libraries that 
> have been available for at least one month before 
> the challenge (and are well documented).

Does this mean the module version we use must be out 30 days before the competition begins, or that the module must be out but we should use the most recent version available when the contest begins?

This question is raised as dunk (d1223m) has been working for a long time on fixing some bugs and adding features to Soya on a branch that hasn't been incorporated into the main Soya and is ready to get them into a new Soya release, but would we be stuck working around bugs in Soya 0.10.0 anyway?

Note that Soya releases are fairly frequent (it's still v0.x) and we always release tutorials for new features so other teams can use these enhancements too.

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Comment by Richard Jones on 2005-08-09 00:20

OK, the rule exists for one reason, and one reason only: to provide a level playing-field for all entrants.

If the library has been out, and documented, for a reasonable amount of time, and the new release doesn't significantly change the API, then I can't see a problem with it being used in the challenge.

If, however, only people really close to Soya's development would be reasonably able to use the new code, then it's really not fair to use it in the challenge.

Comment by Arc on 2005-08-09 04:09

The new code (I believe) fixes bugs (which doesn't signifigantly change the API) and adds some minor functionality, and will include tutorials on the specific graphic effects enabled by this that are not possible with 0.10.

The added effects are minimal. I agree with the level playing field issue; and if this contest were more serious (ie, highly valuable prizes) one might raise conflict of interest issues being as many of the Soya developers will be involved on our team. After all, IRC is a major way to get help with things, even with the current version.

However, our reason for submitting a game for PyWeek is to show of Soya, and everyone else using Soya for their games are along these goals as well, so with or without the new version we'll of course provide help.

Soya is, after all, the best 3d graphics module for Python. ;-)

Comment by Simon on 2005-08-09 12:28

This is an issue for me also. I develop the LGT framework (It's been available for the public for over a year now), and make new releases every other day. I don't generally change the API very much, but I am constantly adding enhancements, breaking things, fixing things etc.

Today, for instance, I've added some more SiGL shapes, and am about to add animated images. It also quite likely that I will fix the model texturing soon. I'm not sure where that puts SiGL for competition use, but I (and three other people AFAIK) sure would like to use it!


Comment by Marcus von Appen on 2005-08-09 20:13

Richard: The OcempGUI API significantly has changed and I would like to make at least a beta release available for pyweek. I wonder, if that makes sense, if it is not allowed to use it then.


Comment by Angel on 2005-08-10 18:32

9. Target platform

All entries must run in Python on the latest available libraries (ie. the latest release of PyGame, PyOpenGL, etc).

This doesn't mean you have to develop on those latest versions, just that any code you produce must work on those versions.

This looks like a rules conflict when a library is released just before, or during, the contest week.

Alternatively, would it make sense to let the contestants be the judge, as they are for the entries? If they feel someone has cheated by releasing a new version of a library and then denied others adequate documentation and assistance in using it, let their peers vote them disqualified.

There seems to be too much grey-area to ask Richard to be the judge on this, and from reading the contest rules, that appears to be a situation he's trying to avoid.

Comment by Arc on 2005-08-11 13:33

See this posting by the contest organizer on this topic.

Though I agree with angel, there is a fair amount of judgement that needs to be made wether someone has released a library just before the contest in order to make more work for others. The challenge rules say that if you get 50% disqualified votes then you're disqualified, so let our peers decide if a release was made to everyone's benefit or just to give ourselves an advantage.

Personally, what I would like to see from library teams (such as ourselves, though nobody on our team is in charge of Soya releases) is an "upgrade guide" if the API changes enough to cause older code not to run as well as a list of new features which we could take advantage of.

Comment by Codexus on 2005-08-15 01:57

As Richard said this rule is there for a reason. I think everyone can make the difference between a new version of a known library and some guy who releases his own code as a pseudo library two days before the start of the competition just to be able to use it. No one is going to be disqualified because they used PyGame 1.7.1 instead of 1.7 or anything like that :)